Shame Must Change Sides: A Survivor’s Tale
In an engaging conversation with Jennifer Emperador, we explore the deep-rooted scars that often lie beneath the surface of our smiles.
It’s a candid discussion about how childhood trauma can shape our identities and relationships, often leading us to wear metaphorical masks to hide our pain.
Jennifer shares her journey from a troubled childhood filled with emotional neglect and abuse to becoming a beacon of hope for others navigating similar waters. We dive into the absurdity of societal expectations and the pressures of conforming to an idealized image, especially in a place like California where 'blonde hair and blue eyes' are often touted as the gold standard of beauty.
Through her transformative healing practices, Jennifer highlights the importance of embodiment—finding safety and power in our own bodies after experiencing trauma. She’s not just talking the talk; she’s walked the walk, and her insights are both painful and enlightening.
As we navigate through the heavy stuff, we also find moments of levity, reminding ourselves that healing can be a messy, yet beautiful journey. By the end, listeners are left with actionable insights and encouragement to embrace their own healing journeys, no matter how daunting they may seem.
Takeaways:
- This episode dives deep into the emotional trauma and healing journeys of survivors.
- Jennifer shares her personal story, emphasizing that shame should never be held alone.
- Communication is key; partners need to understand the complexities of trauma responses.
- Healing is a lifelong journey, not a quick fix, and it's okay to ask for help.
- The importance of embodiment practices in reconnecting with one's body after trauma is highlighted.
- Shame thrives in silence, so speaking up is crucial for healing and empowerment.
You can connect with Jennifer on her website at: https://soldiscovery.com
She also has a free embodiment guide & checklist that you can access at: https://mailchi.mp/435be92c99db/embodiment-guide
Or connect with her on her social platforms:
FB: www.facebook.com/SolDiscovery/
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-emperador/
Transcript
Hey.
Speaker A:Welcome back to another episode of A Warrior Spirit, the show where the inner warrior shines in their light.
Speaker A:Presented by Praxis33, the company that aligns your thoughts, goals and actions to create your best life.
Speaker A:I'm your host, Darrell Snow.
Speaker A:I have a lot of energy workers, massage therapists, Reiki practitioners, and other modality experts in my circle of friends and colleagues.
Speaker A:And one of them often says that we have issues in our tissues because that's where the stress and our trauma in our lives is stored.
Speaker A:And today we're going to be talking with Jennifer Empador.
Speaker A:Jennifer is an embodiment and hypo breath practitioner, and she combines a unique approach that blends movement, mindfulness and embodiment as she empowers individuals to break through their emotional barriers and build resilience and thrive.
Speaker A:So, Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker A:I so appreciate you coming.
Speaker A:I know that you are a fountain of wealth of knowledge and energy and spirit, and having known you for 20 plus years, crazy.
Speaker A:I just, I just know the, the soul that you have and the person that you are, and I just love what you do.
Speaker A:So where did you grow up?
Speaker B:Well, I actually was not born here in the United States, grew up in California, and I still consider myself a Cali girl all the way.
Speaker A:Valley girl or Cali girl.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm loving.
Speaker B:I love the beach.
Speaker B:The last time we were there, I literally cried because I'm like, oh, I need to come back more often.
Speaker B:My ultimate dream is to be there in the summertime so that I get best of both worlds.
Speaker B:Being here in Arizona and there in California.
Speaker A:There's something extremely therapeutic about the ocean.
Speaker A:You know, I joke that my wife is a moon water person living in the sun and desert.
Speaker A:So it doesn't really vibe, but any chance we can get near an ocean, it's magical.
Speaker A:What was your childhood like?
Speaker B:My childhood was actually very challenging.
Speaker B:The beach, the moon, was my safe haven.
Speaker B:My home wasn't safe for me and I would use my little feet to go run to the gym or to the beach or even to the bayside because I lived in Coronado.
Speaker B:My stepdad was in the military and I just sat there hours crying and just really trying to make sense of the world.
Speaker B:So I think the beach is like mother energy for me.
Speaker B:She feels safe and nurturing.
Speaker B:Where I didn't have that growing up.
Speaker A:When you were growing up, were you already fluent in the English language when you came over or is it something you learned along the way?
Speaker B:So I came Here when I was, I believe, like three years old or.
Speaker B:Yeah, three years old.
Speaker B:And it was really hard because my mother wanted me to understand my Filipino and Chinese roots, whereas my.
Speaker B:I have two stepdads.
Speaker B:My second stepdad really insisted that I learned the American ways.
Speaker B:So I really had a big challenge with identity and obviously my sense of safety at that time was taken away.
Speaker B:I dealt with a lot of child sexual abuse and a lot of emotional neglect, abandonment.
Speaker B:So I had to grow up really fast.
Speaker B:I ended up raising my two siblings.
Speaker B:I ended up being like their little mom in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:It's a lot to deal with in a really young age.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:A lot of change being.
Speaker A:It's hard enough being a girl growing up anyway.
Speaker A:There's, I mean, the mean girl syndrome exists.
Speaker A:And then you throw in the fact that you don't look like a California girl, you don't necessarily speak like a California girl.
Speaker A:I, like I said, I've known you for a long time, and when I met you, you're not the same woman that you are today.
Speaker A:You have evolved and changed into something very beautiful, not just externally, but internally.
Speaker A:But there was a time where you were all about the glam, you were all about the show, you were all about the bling.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Was that used as you were growing up to sort of try to fit into that California life, or did you embrace it to just kind of run from what your problems were?
Speaker B:Well, I'm going to tell you this.
Speaker B:It took a long time to even like the way I looked.
Speaker B:It was, I'm going to be 52 February 19th, and I find that, like all these years of growing up in this blonde hair, blue eyed beach town, I always thought blonde hair, blue eyes was the thing that was my measurement for beauty.
Speaker B:And it wasn't until my 40s that I really, like, I started appreciating who I am and what I look like.
Speaker B:And so I got bullied a lot when I was a child because of the way I looked.
Speaker B:And as I got older, obviously because of all the abuse that I went through as a child, whether it was my family, babysitters, my stepdad's, friends.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I ended up having to put this shield.
Speaker B:So that person that you knew years ago was that shield, that kind of that fake power to help protect me and make me feel like I was strong, that nobody was going to be able to hurt me again.
Speaker A:When my wife talks about her own traumas in her own growing up, and she's not from this country, moved here when she was three is also and, and grew up.
Speaker A:So, you know, she had a lot of that as well.
Speaker A:And she talks about how she developed like you say, this shield where she would strike before she's stricken.
Speaker A:Like not physically, but verbally.
Speaker A:Very sharp tongued and very quick to, you know, put the brakes on anybody getting anywhere closer.
Speaker A:Sounds like you had a similar pattern to that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think for a lot of women, that's how we learn to survive and adapt.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We used our bodies and our femininity to help us maneuver through life.
Speaker B:We used it when we needed to be strong and then we also used it as a way like, I'm submissive, I need help and you would be my savior.
Speaker B:And at the end of it all, just as I've done my healing journey, I realized like, oh my gosh, I've been lying to myself this entire time to other people as well, but you know, to my own powerful self.
Speaker B:I was lying to the part of me that knew that I had it in me, but I was too afraid to show that.
Speaker A:And how long because you, you are now, as I mentioned, an embodiment and hyper hype.
Speaker A:Hypno.
Speaker B:Hypno breath.
Speaker A:The hypno breath practitioner.
Speaker A:But you also, you also do mindful meditation, practitioning, you do yoga teaching, you do some advanced type of yoga as well as life coaching.
Speaker A:How did you transform from this?
Speaker A:And I don't want to say broken, because we're all in some aspects traumatized, but how did you go from this trauma based person, this hard shell, into the woman who embodies all these modalities and helps others now?
Speaker B:Well, first I had to break away from the facade.
Speaker B:I had to break away from the expectations that I had in my mind of what success looked like.
Speaker B:And so I was in the admissions field for quite some time and I realized this isn't me.
Speaker B:There was a part of me that I enjoyed in that particular field because I was helping people with their self worth and their fears.
Speaker B:But I wanted something bigger.
Speaker B:And I quit corporate America and took a couple years off and traveled and really just took a hard look at myself.
Speaker B:Met with my first healing experience was Reiki.
Speaker B:I appreciated at that time.
Speaker B:And then I also saw a lot of things that does not resonate with me, especially now with the work that I do.
Speaker B:Because the spiritual community can tend to like bypass what a lot of survivors have experienced by either telling that survivor that, oh, you may have, you know, do you want, can you believe that you signed up for this?
Speaker B:Or two, that there's nothing to Forgive or three, that you.
Speaker B:You wanted.
Speaker B:Like, you wanted.
Speaker B:This was kind of like the message I was getting.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And that's a harm that is done to survivors when they're still trying to make sense of their world and try to have a sense of safety in their body, too.
Speaker B:At that time, I didn't know.
Speaker B:I just experienced Reiki and thought like, oh, this makes me feel good not realizing it at that time.
Speaker B:And neither did that practitioner realize it, but I was still dissociating.
Speaker B:And their experience, their outlook, made.
Speaker B:Made it be my outlook, which promoted the dissociation even more because I'm like, well, I don't want to face what happened.
Speaker B:And maybe this will be the easier route to, like, make sense of what happened in my past and to stop the inner pain that I was experiencing.
Speaker A:You also had the unfortunate you were sexually abused as a child, worked your way through your teenage years and into your adulthood, and you recently experienced sexual assault again.
Speaker A:How did you cope with it differently?
Speaker A:Because children don't have the same tools.
Speaker A:So how did you manage to navigate that ugly water again the second time?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's a great question, Darrel.
Speaker B:When it happened, one, it was by a quote, unquote friend.
Speaker B:Two, I was shocked.
Speaker B:I didn't expect that that experience would ever happen to me again.
Speaker B:There was a lot of shame, thinking that I should have known better.
Speaker B:I even had people who actually asked me why I didn't run or get away or report sooner.
Speaker B:And so that really put me into this place of hiding.
Speaker B:I was experiencing a lot of the health issues that I was experiencing earlier in life.
Speaker B:A lot of anxiety, depression, panic attacks, insomnia.
Speaker B:And in my mind, I knew that my nervous system froze.
Speaker B:I got it from that perspective, but I couldn't understand why.
Speaker B:What I already knew, why I didn't apply those concepts and those learnings to get me out of a situation that happened.
Speaker B:And what I've come to realize was that I may have learned it logically of, like, how my nervous system works, the fear response.
Speaker B:But I never really addressed that deep shame that I was carrying this entire time.
Speaker B:And I think at the time when you met me, right, that facade with the really powerful driver, sports car, wear, the tightest clothes, was all a facade.
Speaker A:To help hide that shame, the sexual assault.
Speaker A:And it typically happens predominantly more to women, but it does happen to men as well.
Speaker A:And I think.
Speaker A:But the common thread for both is the shame.
Speaker A:And even though I have a background in psychology and I understand how the brain works, I still struggle with the shame part.
Speaker A:Because the victim didn't do anything to bring on the assault.
Speaker A:And the assault, when it happens typically from man to woman, is typically more about domination and not sexual.
Speaker A:It's just the tool that's used to carry out that domination.
Speaker A:And it's an anger response.
Speaker A:You know, no one walks around going, hey, I'm going to assault that person because they're really cool.
Speaker A:You know, they do it out of some form of anger and power.
Speaker A:So I don't.
Speaker A:Again, I had my own childhood traumas and some of it was sexual abuse, but I never really felt shame on that because I was a kid and a victim, not like the perpetrator.
Speaker A:So from your standpoint, being in it connected even closer than I've been.
Speaker A:Can you kind of help understand where that shame comes from and what's the best way to.
Speaker A:Because holding onto that is natural and normal, but getting over it is the hard part.
Speaker A:And I don't want to say getting over that's the wrong word, but you understand what I mean, you know, working your way through the healing of it.
Speaker A:So can you kind of help better with better understanding of that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So going through my own healing journey, I wonder the same.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because nobody wants to feel ashamed, especially something like that.
Speaker B:We logically know that's not something that we did.
Speaker B:But yet we still carried this really heavy burden of shame.
Speaker B:And as I visited my past and tried to make sense of it, I realized it came from the cultural experience of being a woman, being Asian, being in low income family.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We didn't speak about it.
Speaker B:And at that point, then it became, we're not going to speak about it.
Speaker B:It didn't.
Speaker B:We're going to say that it didn't happen and when it happened, because it did happen again, you know, from babysitters, from other like friends and family members that we just learned to just disconnect and just deal with it because it becomes your survival mechanism there.
Speaker B:Well, as I looked at my past, I realized, oh, this shame was the shame that I carried because of the way my mother saw the world.
Speaker B:So obviously as a child, I saw the world through my mother's eyes and unconsciously without her realizing that.
Speaker B:That became my narrative for me as I continued to just experience life.
Speaker B:And I didn't realize how deep and heavy it was embedded in every cell of my being until I had to understand the complexities of sexual assault and the mindset and understand what consent is and what it isn't.
Speaker B:And it just opened up a whole window for me to see that God like shame Runs through every part.
Speaker B:Not just the way we think, but even the way we speak, the way we hold our bodies, the way we want to express.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because there's this fear of really being seen fully in our truth and in our power, because shame tells us that we're not powerful and that our truth doesn't matter.
Speaker B:Giselle Pellicot, who is a recent survivor, there's a big story in France about her, and she said my most favorite quote that I live by, and she said, shame must change sides.
Speaker B:And when I heard that, I'm like, wow, that just gave me permission to be like, nope, this doesn't belong to me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And the shame wasn't just the sexual assault survivors.
Speaker B:It was also, like, the shame that my mother had towards me from, you know, having me too young.
Speaker B:And she was just, I'm going to say, a challenge.
Speaker B:I could say a lot of other words, but we.
Speaker B:I've learned to heal a lot of that relationship.
Speaker B:There was a lot of anger stemming from a mother that should have protected and nurtured me instead of shame me and blame me for what happened.
Speaker A:Is part of your mother's role in this culturally?
Speaker A:Like, was that just the Filipino women's way to just accept whatever the man does?
Speaker A:I know my wife is Portuguese, and I know in her culture, when she was growing up, you know, the brother would.
Speaker A:Whatever he said was golden and whatever she said was not.
Speaker A:And it was just kind of the same in the Italian family.
Speaker A:The ma.
Speaker A:The machismo, the.
Speaker A:The macho, you know, and then the submissive female.
Speaker A:Was that the same in the Filipino culture?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it has a lot to do with.
Speaker B:From the cultural aspect, but also from the generational trauma from what she learned, because it was her sisters.
Speaker B:It was, I'm sure, other family members that I don't even know, because there's a lot of my family I don't know.
Speaker B:And she just unconsciously created that same behavior and, you know, wanted me to carry that same torch of pain.
Speaker B:And I being the black sheep was like, I'm done with this shit.
Speaker B:Like, I don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker B:This is not who I am.
Speaker B:And I know I'm better.
Speaker B:Like, I know that I could do better.
Speaker B:And when I was going through my healing journey, addressing these issues with my mother was difficult because she didn't want to talk about it.
Speaker B:And that's how shame thrives, is through secrecy.
Speaker B:And I refuse to do that.
Speaker B:And that's why this recent sexual assault case, me, along with several other survivors, stood up and spoke and we were able to put this guy in prison.
Speaker B:And it took a while for me to want to go there because I was still holding on these ideas of how to show up from the shame perspective.
Speaker B:And I also knew the repercussions for speaking up.
Speaker B:It was going to throw me back several years.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It was going to help me revisit a lot of the things that I didn't heal as a child.
Speaker B:It impacted my health.
Speaker B:It impacted my job at that time, my mental health as well.
Speaker B:Not just my physical health.
Speaker B:It impacted my relationship for a little bit, impacted my self worth.
Speaker B:It took me back to revisit a lot of pain that was never addressed when I was younger because I never got therapy when I was a kid.
Speaker B:I love therapy.
Speaker B:I think it's really good.
Speaker B:I think everybody needs to have it to like kind of check in.
Speaker B:And also using other modalities like embodiment and somatic work has been a big game changer for me.
Speaker A:I think, and I agree, everyone should have a therapist on their speed dial.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because healing is a journey.
Speaker A:It's not a destination.
Speaker A:And we all have things that we have to overcome.
Speaker A:But like in the introduction when I was talking about my other friend who, who does healing as well, you know, the issues in your tissues, did you.
Speaker A:Did you feel physically different once you were on your healing, full healing journey?
Speaker A:And over to most of the other side, could you.
Speaker A:Could you relate to that softness happening in your body that wasn't there before?
Speaker B:You could see it not only physically and I could feel it like my heart didn't feel as guarded anymore.
Speaker B:A lot of the physical health issues that I was dealing with at that time, they were testing to see if I had lupus.
Speaker B:I was obviously dealing with a lot of panic attacks, getting shingles at a really young age and just really some weird health stuff that nobody can make sense of.
Speaker B:And as I address my emotional wounds and all the pain and the anger, because anger is a really difficult feeling to feel.
Speaker B:Those health ailments started dissipating or disappearing.
Speaker B:I used to actually have an inhaler all the time because I had a hard time breathing in life.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And taking up space.
Speaker B:And that's gone now too.
Speaker B:I just don't use that anymore.
Speaker B:So, yeah, like healing your emotional wounds makes a big difference because it really does show up in the body.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Makes a world of difference.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's where we store our stress.
Speaker A:And, you know, you can carry a water bottle around for an hour and it's not going to be Heavy.
Speaker A:But after three days, that water bottle feels like a ton.
Speaker A:And it's no different.
Speaker A:You don't realize the weight you're carrying, no matter how significant it is, until you've set it down and released it.
Speaker A:How far into your journey did you start your practice?
Speaker A:You call it Sol?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And I'm going to have you talk about this here for a second.
Speaker A:You know, how far into your journey?
Speaker A:Soul discovery.
Speaker A:When did you start this phase?
Speaker B:Yeah, actually, I had started another business prior to this, and it wasn't very grounded.
Speaker B:And I knew essentially I wanted to work with sexual assault, domestic violence survivors.
Speaker B:And so I shut that business down, kind of reevaluated how I wanted to approach this journey.
Speaker B:And soul became my way of showing people through embodiment work through breath, work through mindset, that we can really change from a deep soul level.
Speaker B:The other part of that meaning of soul, my girlfriend, when I was in my deepest dark nights, she used to call me every single day and would call me and say, hi, sister of love.
Speaker B:And then it became hi, soul.
Speaker B:So this is just a reminder of that journey of really knowing that you are loved and that the truth of who you are really resides within you.
Speaker B:And it's your opportunity to come back home to yourself.
Speaker B:But learning how to do that in a really safe and empowering way, I think it's really important.
Speaker B:So I use embodiment work to help make sense of what we're experiencing from our beautiful body temple.
Speaker B:And typically sexual assault survivors, they have a disregard for their body because this and felt like an enemy to them and.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We can go through life, we can go through the motions, we can go work out, and we think we're in our bodies and we're grounded.
Speaker B:But in reality, there's a whole art to it.
Speaker B:There's a whole language that we get to understand about how our body expresses.
Speaker B:And giving it the space to do that is everything.
Speaker B:And I find that with embodiment, I'm able to navigate life even though, like, the most difficult things, I can handle those and even the most joyous, joyous things.
Speaker B:Because for a lot of people, joy can be really challenging to experience too.
Speaker A:And along with, you know, your.
Speaker A:Your discussion today, you're also offering free embodiment guide and a checklist.
Speaker A:I have the URL posted here and we'll have it in the show notes for anyone who's listening, just auto on the auto.
Speaker A:But what, what is this embodiment guide and what will they discover?
Speaker B:Well, I know people always talk about, like, coming back home to our bodies and being grounded and centered, but we don't know what that really looks like or feels like.
Speaker B:And so I take my clients through that experience to understand the little nuances of what they're experiencing.
Speaker B:And so this guy's gonna just kind of almost be like a little checklist to just see, like, wow, there's a whole experience, a whole script happening right here.
Speaker B:You know, when I'm feeling angry or sad or when I'm interacting with somebody.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:So it's really learning how to trust about, like, what is showing up here.
Speaker B:Because when we can understand how our body is showing up, my God, we can maneuver through life so much differently.
Speaker B:We can feel more powerful and worthy, and we can really feel more confident.
Speaker B:I think a lot of times people think confidence comes from this mindset or that we can change the world, just changing our mindset, that the.
Speaker B:The true power comes from accessing our center, our body temple, and understand what it.
Speaker B:How it's expressing itself in that time because it's our.
Speaker B:This is like a beautiful navigator for us.
Speaker B:And we tend to forget that because we really operate from this disembodied place.
Speaker B:And I love mindset work, but really, like, mindset work, to me, really touches on the kind of the surface level of our experiences.
Speaker B:We can make sense of it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But really to understand the feelings of what we're experiencing, that's the true freedom, is really coming back home to our bodies and really addressing what's happening from this bigger.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:This bigger place of us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I used to do a mindset, transformational, mindset coaching, but I also discovered that it's deeper than that, and it does have the transformation.
Speaker A:The true transformation comes from the deeper place inside, connecting those feelings to what your logic.
Speaker A:Because you said you.
Speaker A:Even in your recent assault, you said, I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, logically you knew.
Speaker A:But something was disconnected to cause the reaction to flee.
Speaker A:And when I've helped clients, it's always, yes, logically, they understand.
Speaker A:But until it's heart centered and they feel, you know, it has to get from the head to the heart in order to transform the soul.
Speaker A:Otherwise, it's just knowledge, and they don't do anything with it.
Speaker A:So I totally understand, you know, the wave that you want to go deeper with for your clients and even for yourself.
Speaker A:But earlier on, you said something that caught my attention, and I think it's true for a lot of assault victims.
Speaker A:Part of it changed your relationship with your partner.
Speaker A:And again, having known you and your partner for Quite a while.
Speaker A:I know the pillar of rock and foundation that he is.
Speaker A:So I was kind of shocked for a moment.
Speaker A:But, you know, he is human.
Speaker A:He's not.
Speaker A:You know, he may look like Rambo, but he's not Superman.
Speaker A:And he does.
Speaker A:He does have still human emotions.
Speaker A:So I can understand, you know, from that aspect.
Speaker A:But I think that it's common for other victims, for their relationships with their friends, their partners, those that are close to them, to also change, and not always for the good.
Speaker A:So how did you navigate that ugliness to keep solid in your relationship?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:That's such a great question.
Speaker B:Because I'll tell you, I was pissed off.
Speaker B:I was pissed.
Speaker B:I was ashamed.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And he didn't understand.
Speaker A:And he didn't understand that you were pissed or he didn't understand.
Speaker B:He didn't understand why.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That there was so much shame in that.
Speaker B:Why I didn't run.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Logically, we.
Speaker B:I think we ask all sexual assault survivors or domestic violence survivors, why don't you leave?
Speaker B:And they don't realize, from a nervous system perspective, that's not as easy as you think it is.
Speaker B:And that the other expressions of our trauma responses is our way of surviving and through therapy work, I realized that freeze response actually kept me from possibly getting hurt or even killed.
Speaker B:And when I saw it from that experience, like, oh, okay, how I responded, I'm going to let go of that shame.
Speaker B:And so I had to really learn to educate my partner of what it means to be a survivor, what it means to deal with all the shame, what it means to not feel good in my body, not to feel good about being touched.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There was a lot of trust issues that came up.
Speaker B:And thank God for patience and communication.
Speaker B:And his willingness to want to understand got us through those dark periods.
Speaker B:But I'll tell you, after it all happened, he even admitted, like, I don't.
Speaker B:There was a part of me that didn't want to stay because it was too much.
Speaker B:And luckily, I wasn't there to be like, hey, fix this.
Speaker B:But he could tell my world was literally falling apart.
Speaker B:Like I said, my job was affected, my mental health, my physical health.
Speaker B:So it's a lot for somebody else to sit there and be a part of.
Speaker B:But I think really good communication and creating that sense of safety is everything.
Speaker A:Another part from a man's perspective, because we want to protect our loved one and we want to protect our partners.
Speaker A:The rage that we feel to want to cause physical harm on the person who physically harmed our loved one also needs to be in check.
Speaker A:And also our own guilt for not protecting them or not being there to get them out of it.
Speaker A:We go through our own.
Speaker A:I don't want to say shame, but definitely guilt.
Speaker A:And that is a strong reaction, especially for someone who is alpha, as your partner is.
Speaker A:And, you know, I know my own inner rage level.
Speaker A:What if what happened to my partner and my wife happened to you?
Speaker A:I don't know that I would be able to hold myself calm.
Speaker B:At the day of the court proceedings.
Speaker B:I think it really hit him what I was actually going through when he saw me make my impact statement.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I would say if anybody's ever going through anything like this, I'm appreciative of the court system.
Speaker B:I think it would have been better.
Speaker B:I would have had a better experience if I actually was given therapy while the court proceedings were happening, because this all happened during COVID The state shut down.
Speaker B:So I was really going inward.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I was barely making it out of bed.
Speaker B:Didn't want to feel anything.
Speaker B:And every time we had to go through court hearings, I was just triggered.
Speaker B:And then just right after we're done, right back into bed.
Speaker B:Barely could make it.
Speaker B:So Anthony could see me from that perspective.
Speaker B:But when we went to court and he could see the perpetrator's eyes and the other victims, he realized what an impact this had on me at that time.
Speaker B:He didn't realize it as I was going through it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And my.
Speaker A:My daughter was sexually assaulted by her biological mother and her mother's husband for several years.
Speaker A:And the reason she didn't tell me is because she knew that I would have done something about it and not waited for the court systems, and she didn't want to lose two parents.
Speaker A:So she suffered in her silence because I didn't give her a safe space because of my own unhealed anger.
Speaker A:So, you know, I think it's important for anyone listening to this to understand, in spite of your own emotions, your partner is going through it a lot worse.
Speaker A:And you have to be that calm, safe haven that they no longer have in the exterior world.
Speaker A:And it's important to check yourself so that they have a place to heal themselves.
Speaker A:And unfortunately, I wasn't far enough along in my own healing journey to understand that when my daughter was going through her own sexual assault.
Speaker A:So I can appreciate, you know, the stance that Anthony had and the awareness that your relationship helped him get to.
Speaker A:So if there was some other person out there listening to this and they wanted to get over that shame or to even come forward, where from your own, and you didn't experience it once or twice.
Speaker A:You experienced it a lifetime.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Like, you've had a lifetime of this.
Speaker A:So where would you tell them to start?
Speaker A:And where would you have liked to have started so it didn't happen over a lifetime?
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh, that makes me sad, like, thinking about that.
Speaker B:Because what I didn't get was the sense of safety, right?
Speaker B:And safety is such a weird word because even as I speak about it today, I'm like, gosh, logically, I'm safe.
Speaker B:And when I think of safety, it encompasses the sense of security, the sense of autonomy, the sense of, like, we can express our feelings and the essence of embodiment.
Speaker B:And as a child, I would have loved to have, like, a safe person that encompassed all of those feelings to help guide me through the darkness that I was feeling and all the shame that I was feeling to have a safe person.
Speaker B:But I think at that time, the teachers.
Speaker B:I know my teachers knew, but they didn't know how to stand up for me.
Speaker B:And I was so good at always having a smile.
Speaker B:That was my additional armor so that everything appeared to be okay.
Speaker B:But in reality, like, I can see people and I can tell when they're checked out.
Speaker B:And so when I do sense somebody is in that space, the best question, right, is what is it that you need to feel safe?
Speaker B:And that could be just a listening ear.
Speaker B:It can be resources.
Speaker B:It can just be like holding their hand if that's welcomed for their experience so that they know they're not alone.
Speaker B:Because at the end, right, our silence is costing us more than it is to speak up.
Speaker B:And I think we need more people to speak up and to normalize that, because the other experience is not ours to hold as survivors.
Speaker B:And like I mentioned earlier, shame must change sides.
Speaker A:And when you're talking to the people who are supposed to be supportive, what is it that we shouldn't be saying?
Speaker A:Because logically we want to say, it wasn't your fault.
Speaker A:How can you get over it, move forward?
Speaker A:Nothing to be ashamed about.
Speaker A:All those platitudes that we want to express just because that's all we know to say.
Speaker A:What would have helped you more than those platitudes in someone who was creating that space, safe space for you, I.
Speaker B:Would say really acknowledging the elephant in the room, right?
Speaker B:Like, gosh, I don't.
Speaker B:Somebody may not have gone through what I experienced, but to just say, gosh, I can only imagine how hard that was for you.
Speaker B:Do you want to talk about it?
Speaker B:Do you need me to be here.
Speaker B:What can I do for you so that you feel like you're seen and heard in a way that you need?
Speaker B:My partner, way back when I was going through all these challenges with that court stuff, I had an emotional reaction to something.
Speaker B:And in that moment when I was spiraling, he stopped me and says, what is it that you need to feel safe?
Speaker B:I don't understand.
Speaker B:And that's like, nobody ever asked me what I needed.
Speaker B:It was always about other people's agendas and really catering to their discomfort.
Speaker B:But people have a hard time sitting in other people's challenges and pain, especially.
Speaker A:When we're accustomed to being the fixer.
Speaker A:We don't know what to do to fix.
Speaker A:Makes it very uncomfortable.
Speaker A:And I can understand why some people leave that situation.
Speaker A:I think it's vastly unfair to leave your partner when they're in that state.
Speaker A:For those reasons.
Speaker A:I think it's understandable, but I think it's selfish.
Speaker A:And, you know, personally, I mean, my wife and I and I.
Speaker A:She's tried to push me away for years for her own ailments and her own pain.
Speaker A:And I've told her, you know, in my mind, it's for better or for worse, not until something better comes along.
Speaker A:So, okay, so we're experiencing the worst right now.
Speaker A:We'll get to the better later.
Speaker A:But, you know, that's just a personal thought for myself, but I think it's very unfair, especially to the woman, to leave them in that state because they're already feeling vulnerable, they're already lost their identity, they already lost their joy and hope.
Speaker A:And the one person they thought they could count on now leaves them too.
Speaker A:I think that's just horrible.
Speaker A:So kudos, you know, for Anthony, for even though having the human reaction to it's too much, but to still stick it out and anyone else out there.
Speaker A:I don't think the therapy should just be for the victim.
Speaker A:I think the therapy should be for both couples involved, because both couples have to find their way through that to get to the other side.
Speaker B:You know, I had guilt about him going to prison because I didn't want.
Speaker B:I don't like to hurt people.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That's that codependent tendency that I have.
Speaker B:And it was through therapy that I came to the realizations, like, wow.
Speaker B:And through other people who are still communicating with him that he's not remorseful, and he really thinks that there was an injustice done to him.
Speaker B:And when I heard that, I was appalled.
Speaker B:But it also gave me freedom to finally say, yes, you're in there.
Speaker B:For a reason.
Speaker B:It's not just me.
Speaker B:There are all these other victims who stood up as well for that same reason.
Speaker A:It's hard when they don't show any remorse.
Speaker A:I know firsthand that experience, and it's just horrible.
Speaker A:If you were to give your best Jennifer advice right now to whomever's listening to this, whatever side of the aisle they're on, whether they're the victim or the supporter, what would you say is the biggest takeaway you can provide for them right now?
Speaker B:I would remind them that they are very powerful and they're worthy and that voice really does matter.
Speaker B:Speaking up is everything.
Speaker B:It doesn't need to be in a big court system.
Speaker B:But speaking up so that that shame doesn't hide anymore, because it's not your secret to hold anymore.
Speaker B:So I would say really like finding support and speak about it.
Speaker B:It's everything.
Speaker A:Finding your voice, that's the hard part, but definitely one of the necessary steps.
Speaker A:Jennifer, I am going to ask you the one last question that I ask all my guests, and I'm going to ask you, what does a warrior spirit or having a warrior spirit mean to Jennifer?
Speaker B:A warrior spirit is someone who can still see through the eyes of love, despite all the pain, that they know their inner strength and that they can see that in others, too, even people that have harmed them, that we're all here just in our own journey.
Speaker B:And I think it's important for us to know that we're really just doing the best that we can come and we can really rise from hard things.
Speaker A:Well, I'm thrilled that you're in my tribe for as long as we've been together, and I love the transformation and the person that you've become.
Speaker A:You are a beautiful soul, Sol, in all regards as well as S o u l.
Speaker A:So thank you for sharing your story.
Speaker A:Thank you for bringing this to light.
Speaker A:It's a discussion that I think is totally necessary and needs to happen more often.
Speaker A:So I appreciate your courage for doing it.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Remember, shame must change sides.
Speaker A:Shame must change sides.
Speaker A:And if you'd like to connect with Jennifer, you can do so on her website, souldiscovery.com also on all of her social media platforms.
Speaker A:And once again, I thank you for joining us on this edition of A Warrior Spirit.
Speaker A:Be sure to hit that like or subscribe button so you catch all the episodes and have a beautiful day.
